Frontier Justice: An execution in Melbourne CBD

It’s 1839, and Melbourne is a fledgling frontier, rife with tension between British invaders and First Australians.

The arrival of two Palawa men, Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheener, sparks a chain of events leading to a brutal execution witnessed by thousands in the heart of the city.

Were they criminals, or resistance fighters opposing colonial invasion? This is the untold story of rebellion, violence, and injustice that shaped the early days of Melbourne — and it’s a story that most Australians have never heard.

Guest: Professor Lynette Russell AM, Sir John Monash Distinguished Professor and Australian Research Council Laureate Fellow, Monash University

Case: The trial and execution of Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheenner (Melbourne, 1842)

Further Reading:  Auty, K., & Russell, L. (2016). Hunt Them, Hang Them: 'The Tasmanians' in Port Phillip 1841-42. (1 ed.) Justice Press.

Transcript

James Pattison: It's 1839 and the town that we now know as Melbourne is still in its infancy, just four years into British occupation. 

Melissa Castan: The huge area around Melbourne, the Port Phillip District, has become a raw and volatile frontier where British settlers carve out farms and fortunes. On lands that have belonged to Aboriginal people, the Kulin Nations, for tens of thousands of years.

Melissa Castan: Tensions are simmering and violence between the first Australians and the new arrivals is becoming increasingly common. 

James Pattison: Now amid this, we zoom out to see a ship. It's tearing across Bass Strait, sailing from Tasmania to Melbourne. On board are two Palawa Tasmanian Aboriginal men, whose terrible fate awaits These men, their names are Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheenner

James Pattison: these men stand at the centre of a story that will lead to a gruesome execution, attended by thousands, right in the centre of the Melbourne CBD. And most Australians have never heard of this case. But why were they executed? Was it for a campaign of violence, including murder, as was said at the time? Or was it not simply murder?

James Pattison: Were these men engaged in a larger resistance movement? Against a colonial invader.

Melissa Castan: Here to discuss this case is Historian Professor Lynette Russell. She's told the story in her book Hunt Them, Hang Them, co authored with Kate Orte. Lynette is a Sir John Monash Distinguished Professor and an Australian Research Council Laureate Fellow at Monash University. Lynette Russell, welcome to Case in Point.

Lynette Russell: Thank you very much, Melissa. Thank you. 

James Pattison: Lynette, could you set the scene for us and, and paint a picture of Melbourne and the Port Phillip District at this time? The, the light. 1830s, early 1840s. 

Lynette Russell: So it's a, it's an area that's only recently been, I shall say occupied, if not invaded by Europeans who have arrived, as you said, in the, in the mid 1830s, they've come across with a group of convicts and their desire is to establish, as we know, Batman called it the, an ideal place for a village.

Lynette Russell: They've come across looking for pastures. They're looking for land and they're looking for resources. And of course, they're completely oblivious to the fact that this is land that has been owned and occupied by the Kulin Nations for tens of thousands of years. 

Melissa Castan: What was their relationship like between the British settlers and the Kulin Nations?

Lynette Russell: I think in the very beginning, those very, the first couple of years, it was, it was relatively peaceful in as much as Aboriginal people went about their business and they observed the, the newcomers arriving, establishing pretty, you know, pretty, miserable, makeshift tent like, you know, village. There wasn't a lot of permanent settlement at the time.

Lynette Russell: So, Aboriginal people didn't at that, in those very first instances, feel particularly threatened. I don't believe that they necessarily assumed that they were going to stay, so there's probably that element as well. And of course, we know that right from the very beginning there was this deep mismatch in understanding, as evidenced by the so called Batman Treaty, which John Batman, established a treaty.

Lynette Russell: He thought he established a treaty. I would bel say that the, the Ku nations, the elders, the, the war, the nata of the Warri people, the people that signed this so-called treaty. Actually believed that they were taking part in a, a, a tan ceremony, which would be a set, a ceremony that gave people the right to enter the country, uh, not the right to, to take the country.

Melissa Castan: And then that treaty was repudiated, by the New South Wales governor who said, you can't be making a treaty with people that don't own land. In that, in that assumption that only the British could own the land. 

Lynette Russell: That's correct. And it's, what's interesting about the truth is the rapidity at which it was, it was turned over.

Lynette Russell: it, it really was. kind of instantaneously, the New South Wales Colonial Office wasn't going to have a bar of it. 

Melissa Castan: So this sort of speaks to profound cultural misunderstanding and even cultural clash between the two communities that are in the same place. 

Lynette Russell: Absolutely. They're not, they're not seeing.

Lynette Russell: They're not understanding each other and they clearly don't have any sense of what each other's motivations are. 

James Pattison: In the intro, we mentioned, this boat that's tearing across Bass Strait, bringing a group of people from Tasmania, then Van Diemen's Land, uh, to Melbourne. Who's on board? We're going to meet them.

James Pattison: Some of the key characters in this story. 

Lynette Russell: Well, one of the passengers on board is George Augustus Robinson. Robinson has lived for a decade or so in Van Diemen's Land, and he's taken the role of variously described as pacifier, conciliator, or protector of Aboriginal people, Aborigines as they were called then.

Lynette Russell: And he was responsible for removing Aboriginal people from the main land. Island of Tasmania and moving them onto the Bass Straits Islands, where he anticipated that they would live out their days before passing away. I don't think there was any desire for him to save them, which one might've assumed with a name like a term, like the protector of Aborigines, but indeed he was.

Lynette Russell: Accompanied by, actually, a group of 15 Aboriginal people coming across from, from Tasmania. And they were a fam what he describes loosely as a family group, which in Aboriginal terms is probably exactly what they were. A broad kinship group. there were brothers and sisters, husbands and wives. And those, these 15 people were to join him in what became the state of Victoria, was then the Port Phillip Colony.

Lynette Russell: And the Port Phillip Colony, which is where he was going to establish his own property, but also take up the role of protector of the Aborigines of the Port Phillip Colony. 

Melissa Castan: Do we know why he selected this family group to come across with him rather than being placed on those other islands? 

Lynette Russell: He had a special relationship, uh, with this particular group of people.

Lynette Russell: And in particular, there's been a significant amount of speculation that he had a very close relationship with Truconini, who was one of the women. Uh, some people have postulated that there may have been a sexual relationship. I I'm much less inclined to believe that, but I do think that there was a very strong kindred sort of friendship that they had.

Lynette Russell: Uh, and, Because it, because of that relationship, this is the group, this is a group that was kind of articulated and pivoted around Truganini as a central character. 

James Pattison: And a lot of Australians would have heard of the name Truganini as well. It was news to me actually in, in learning about this story. I did a little bit of reading up beforehand that she was on board this boat.

James Pattison: I actually wasn't aware of that. And she was on board with a few other people who will become central characters in this story, especially now I want to make sure I'm getting the pronunciation right. Uh, Tunnerminnerwait? 

Lynette Russell: Correct. 

James Pattison: And Maulboyheenner. 

Lynette Russell: Yes. That's, that's the two names. sometimes, sometimes known by, you know, Bob and, and, and, Jimmy.

Lynette Russell: but they're proper names, which I much prefer to use. Maulboyheenner. Tunnerminnerwait. 

James Pattison: Can you tell us a little bit about these two men? Where were they from? And we're going to obviously look at why they were on their way to Melbourne as well. 

Lynette Russell: Well, these, these people came with, with Robinson and they were going to work.

Lynette Russell: Uh, the property that he was going to set up. And in fact, some of the, some of the people did. Walter Arthur George was one of the people who was on that, that ship alongside them. And he actually, when Robinson set up a, set up a station at, just outside of Yaroa. He, he worked there for a number of years, and this, you know, he had a kind of complex relationship with these people.

Lynette Russell: I don't, I definitely think that Maulboyheenner and Tunnerminnerwait were, the plan that Robinson has was that they would act as envoys or potentially even translators. Of course, The languages are quite different, so that didn't work out. But that's what his plan was, that these were people that would be able to assist him in his important, what he considered to be extremely important, position of protecting Aborigines.

Lynette Russell: And this is, we need to remember that this is right at the time that the Society for the Protection of Aborigines is established in London, which comes straight out of the humanitarian movement, and of course the anti slavery movement. So there's a lot of these kind of humanitarian motives at play. And the idea being that he would come to us, to, to Victoria and he would then attempt to do what he had done in his opinion successfully in, in Van Diemen's Land.

Lynette Russell: And that was to move Aboriginal people off their land and into missions or stations or settlements, which would be where they could be, quote, unquote, protected. 

Melissa Castan: Lynette, the words that you're describing here are really powerful. Masking quite, quite devastating consequences for the people concerned here.

Melissa Castan: It's not really about the protection at all, is it? 

Lynette Russell: No, I've always thought that the term protection is a relatively ironic one, because to be perfectly honest, the only people that ultimately, Robinson and his assistant protectors, the only people they actually protected were the white settlers slash invaders.

James Pattison: In about August 1841, the group leaves Melbourne. Where are they going? And what are they doing? 

Lynette Russell: So, in August 1841, the group leaves Melbourne. They're heading down towards the Gippsland region, and they're particularly heading along the coastlines, and they're looking, I mean, in this case, Robinson is looking for groups to encounter, new groups of Aboriginal people to encounter, Aboriginal families, Aboriginal tribal communities.

Lynette Russell: He's looking for them to, to encounter those, and to establish whether or not He's going to be able to work in his capacity as a protector with these communities. So, They leave Melbourne. They then go on to, uh, Western Port. By the time they reach Cape Paterson, it's October 1841. And this is where the, the, the tragedy unfolds.

Lynette Russell: Tunnerminnerwait and Maulboyheenner shoot and kill two whalers, one known as William Cook and the other known simply as Yankee. Almost certainly an American. This takes place at the Head Patterson coal mine and it's quite clear that the Tasmanian men were familiar with the two whalers. that they had encountered them before and probably almost certainly I would say had experienced violence at their hands in the past.

Lynette Russell: It's important to remember that both whaling and sealing had been carried on along the coastline of the Port Phillip colony for at least 40 years, so that takes us back into the 80s. 18th century. And these men had worked alongside whalers and sealers in the past. In fact, as I mentioned one before, uh, William Arthur George, he actually worked as a whaler on a whale boat.

Melissa Castan: Some, some conflict. And then obviously the, the tragedy occurs, but it's between people who actually know each other. And there's been some past history. Do we know what the extent of that past history is? Do we know what the circumstances are of what happens outside the coal mine? 

Lynette Russell: We can't be quite sure what happens, but the, the implication might be that these men were responsible for the murder of some Aboriginal people from Tasmania.

Lynette Russell: In an early encounter. We know that Traganini's husband was mutilated and murdered and that was something that was attributed to whalers. So it could even be that they were retaliating for something that had happened some years earlier. 

Melissa Castan: And is, is Robinson with the group at this point or as they separated out from each other?

Lynette Russell: They're still in contact with each other, but Robinson is not a It does not witness the murder. 

James Pattison: So Cook and Yankee are both killed. You're saying that there may have been a desire for, for payback to, to avenge deaths of their friends or family. What else took place? I understand that there was a little bit more than, than just the shooting of these two whalers.

Lynette Russell: The records at the time indicate that one man was shot and died immediately. The other was badly wounded and was then bludgeoned to death. this is a, you know, this is a horrible thing that happened. I, and I don't want to diminish. this terrible thing that happened to these two men. But I think it's really important that we then start to, unpick the response to this murder, to these deaths by the broader community at the time, which of course results in the, the, the execution of Maulboyheenner and Tunnerminnerwait.

James Pattison: Now I've read that there were some other actions that took place around the time of the murders, including. burning down properties, stealing guns or other pieces of personal property as well. If we piece this all together, was this a series of guerrilla attacks? Was this a, was this a resistance in, in your view?

Lynette Russell: I think it's quite difficult to, to apply motives to something that happened over 170 years ago. But I'm certainly aware that many people have argued that they, these two men were in a sense, black bush rangers. That they were carrying out retaliatory raids. They were stealing property where they needed to steal property.

Lynette Russell: They took guns when they found them. and all of this to me is indicative of a frontier warfare. That is clearly, they are on the warpath looking. to make a better lives for themselves. And I think it's really important that we understand the violence. This was a violent society at the time. It was a very violent society.

Lynette Russell: We are, it's the same time as this is happening. We have essentially guerrilla warfare down in Western Victoria and people know about this. It is in the newspapers. It is being recorded in official documentation. There's a lot, there's a significant amount of violence and that is violence of settlers, towards Aboriginal people and retaliation on behalf of Aboriginal people.

Lynette Russell: Aboriginal people were not passive in this. They actually stood up for themselves. 

Melissa Castan: Lynette, in, in response to this, this interaction and these violent events, how did the colonial authorities respond and, and how did they eventually capture these two men? 

Lynette Russell: There was a very, significant raid on the campsite, which we have multiple different versions of what actually happened.

Lynette Russell: perhaps the, the most convincing is that people went in all guns blazing and took the two men, well in a sense took them, I would say almost hostage, but they certainly captured them and brought them to Melbourne where they were to be tried. This large group of settlers, uh, approached the native people.

Lynette Russell: camp, as they called it at the time, and then came in, as I said, with guns, flying. 

Melissa Castan: Once they'd captured them and taken them into custody, what was the legal process that then took place? 

Lynette Russell: Well, We have a, a very unusual situation because there's essentially one judiciary, that's, that's Judge Willis, and he is, I mean, everything I've read about him, he feels to me like something of a buffoon, but he was also going to, whether, no matter what, he was going to make a name for himself, and one of the things that happened was, he, he, they were charged with murder, They were then tried for murder.

Lynette Russell: The only people that could have been, able to provide any sort of, evidence support advocacy were prevented from doing so. And Maulboyheenner, and Tunnerminnerwait, who are described as having been convicted on the basis of their own testimony. but when, what Kate Orte and I would say is that is completely wrong.

Lynette Russell: Absolutely, uh, not correct. They never had the opportunity to even make a testimony. They never had the chance to offer any sort of support because there was no way that they were able to give evidence in court. 

Melissa Castan: Yeah, so the Aboriginal testimony was not allowed. and, but equally, the Assistant Protector of Aborigines, William Thomas, was barred from testifying.

Melissa Castan: That's right. So, 

Lynette Russell: That is such a strange thing, the Thomas situation. Thomas was literally locked out of the court. The doors were locked and he wasn't permitted in. 

Melissa Castan: So even on the legal processes of the time, which, you know, self justified as excluding Aboriginal testimony, but that also excluded the testimony of the, the government bureaucrat who, who would normally be entitled to, to speak on behalf of one side or the other.

Melissa Castan: So it's a really irregular, irregular process that's taken place here, which feels from what we're discussing, a really politicised process. 

Lynette Russell: Absolutely. We, Kate and I argue that ultimately, even in the standards of the day, which we would consider to be fairly mediocre, but even by the standards of the day, There is no way that they were given a fair trial.

James Pattison: Now in any court case in Melbourne in the 1800s, we're going to see someone called Redmond Barry rearing his head. This, this guy pops up in everything from You know what, I shouldn't say it. What do we know Redmond Barry for? 

Lynette Russell: Redmond Barry is a huge figure in colonial Victoria and colonial Melbourne.

Lynette Russell: and he, he, he acted as a lawyer, he's a barrister. it's important to remember too that it wasn't just the two men that were arrested. Three women were also arrested at the same time. So Redmond Barry takes on the case for the five people. even though at that stage he hadn't done much more than conveyancing and mortgages, and obviously he goes on to, to, you know, to defend, uh, Ned Kelly later on.

Lynette Russell: So, I mean, he becomes a huge name, but at this point it's, he's, it's very early in his career and what he does do is he gets these three women let off. The, the, the case against the women is dropped and the case against the two men is maintained. 

James Pattison: I understand that he tried to argue that the British didn't have authority over these men and women.

James Pattison: Because they were not citizens, is that correct? 

Lynette Russell: He insists that they don't have authority over them, also because there's no permit, there's no mechanism for them to be able to give them evidence. If they can't give evidence, then they, in a sense, they're not citizens. So they, therefore, they shouldn't be governed by this particular, this particular court proceedings.

Lynette Russell: But, 

James Pattison: By 21st century standard, it sort of seems like a smart defence to bring up, and in a way, a little bit unexpected that that might be something that was argued at the time. Because the perception, I think maybe the 21st century perception might be that it was quite clearly, the case was completely stacked against these men and these women.

James Pattison: But there was quite ingenious defences at least attempted. 

Lynette Russell: Absolutely. In fact, the colonial authorities were completely aware of the inherent unfairness of preventing Aboriginal people from giving personal testimony. There's no question. You read the documents, it's very, very clear. And as I mentioned earlier, with the humanitarian society and the protection of Aboriginal society that came out of London, there's a real desire there to at least offer legal support or equal rights.

Lynette Russell: When they can't give evidence in their own court, it's quite clear that they're not experiencing equal rights or any sort of support. The Governor, George Gipps, is so confident that this actually operates in favour of Aboriginal people that he actually states, Aboriginal people are almost invariably acquitted, but of course.

Lynette Russell: In the case of Maulboyheenner and Tunnerminnerwait, that was not the case. 

Melissa Castan: So, Lynette, was this a jury trial or did Justice Willis just decide on his own? 

Lynette Russell: Unfortunately, it was a jury trial, but, Justice Willis overturned the jury and, uh, made his own decision. 

Melissa Castan: So the jury recommended mercy and, and, uh, noted that the men were of good character and that it had been an extremely complicated case, indicating some of the things that you'd raised before.

Melissa Castan: But Willis just, seemed determined to make an example or make his name out of this case? 

Lynette Russell: My feeling is probably make his name. I think Willis is, really quite a scandalous character in all of this. The prosecution actually requests a less serious charge than murder. The judge rejects that. The jury then recommends mercy.

Lynette Russell: The judge rejects that. Finally, then, Robinson, Chief Protector, is charged with the responsibility of protecting the interests of them. conducts an unchecked personal unrecorded conversation with both the prosecutor and the judge in this case. Very unusual. We don't really know what happened. There's also a weird gift that is given to Robinson from the judge.

Lynette Russell: So we don't really know whether or not there's something, untoward going on here. Given how I've already mentioned that Truganini had a very close relationship with Robinson and she mattered a great deal to him, it perhaps. he perhaps was advocating very strongly that the women be let go, which of course was what happened.

Lynette Russell: But the jury recommends mercy. The prosecution doesn't want a charge of murder. But, as it turns out, Judge Willis decides that not only will he charge them with murder, he will find them guilty of murder, and he will have them executed. And it's an execution that happens very quickly. Wow. 

Melissa Castan: Are executions common at this time in Melbourne?

Melissa Castan: Is this something that's happening all the time? 

Lynette Russell: This is the first execution in Melbourne. Melbourne's been going since, as I said, the mid 1830s, and here we are in 1842. So the first, the first executions of two Aboriginal Tasmanian men, and it takes place about seven years after Europeans arrive. 

James Pattison: Can you take us to that?

Lynette Russell: To the day It's just awful. It's, it's, it's. It's very difficult to read. the newspapers, it was 5, 000 people turned up to see this, including Aboriginal people who were in trees and white people everywhere. they were clad in white pyjamas and taken on the back of a dray to the gallows, makeshift gallows, uh, around about where we now have the old Melbourne jail.

Lynette Russell: It was a terrible spectacle. Maulboyheenner strangled. he twisted and fought the rope. it was just a really terrible sight and many people were really shocked by this. And you get evidence of this in the newspapers of the day. it's a really sad, sad event. 

Melissa Castan: Was the media reporting it in those terms Lynette, that it seemed awful and tragic or was it sort of gleeful and kind of, You know, like a spectacle.

Lynette Russell: I think it was a spectacle. and I think that the people's response and attitude towards executions is obviously profoundly different to what we might have, but there is also some very significant, I would say sympathetic press as well. 

James Pattison: The day after the execution, the Port Phillip Herald reported what had taken place and then also wrote an editorial.

James Pattison: I might just read a little bit if I can. They say, of the justness of the sentence and of the policy of its enforcement, there cannot rest a doubt on the minds of those who have attended the whole circumstances of the case. They say it's possible, but we consider extremely improbable, that the Aborigines will attempt to revenge the act and go to dawn by the dark and early morning.

James Pattison: untutored passions of their nature take summary vengeance upon the white population. They then write that the absolute certainty that had a milder punishment been inflicted, the colonists would have declared, and declared with truth, that there was in this colony one law for the black and another for the white man.

James Pattison: The white population would take upon themselves to obtain that justice which they had seen instructed by precedent they could not secure at the hand of the government. And would not the result be that instead of two murderers having suffered the extreme penalty of the law which justice awarded to their crimes, hundreds would fall before the incensed settlers whose sole defense lay in themselves.

James Pattison: Open warfare would result. 

Lynette Russell: It's powerful stuff. 

James Pattison: When you were talking before about the role that George Augustus Robinson played, on the one hand touting himself as someone who was there for the benefit of First Nations people, tricking themselves into thinking that we are here to help and protect these people.

James Pattison: Instead, it seems like the same sort of thinking on the part of the Portfield Herald's editorial that executing these two men was for the good of their people. It's, it's amazing to see the knots that human beings can tie themselves in to justify horrible behavior. 

Lynette Russell: Absolutely. And I really highlight something.

Lynette Russell: The media in Victoria, in Melbourne at that time, was actually quite extraordinarily, predisposed to support Aboriginal people. Quite surprisingly, so it wasn't what I was expecting when I started reading this material, and you suddenly realize that they are really, particularly someone like Edward Wilson, who runs the Argus, really, I mean, he's, he basically has some really scathing things to say about the ways in which settlers have treated Aboriginal people.

Lynette Russell: It's very powerful stuff. 

James Pattison: The Port Phillip Herald, this is very self indulgent, but the Port Phillip Herald only two weeks later reports that a ship called the Pathfinder has arrived in Melbourne from London and on board a 13 in the steerage, including a passenger with my surname, who is my great great great great grandfather.

James Pattison: You know, I'd heard about this case, Lynette, a few years ago. It really blew my mind. brought to life for me what this really bloody and violent town was like in those days. What jumps out to me is the fact that you walked past this very spot so many times throughout your life with no knowledge of what took place there.

James Pattison: What do you make about the fact that this is a story that Unfortunately, so few people know. 

Lynette Russell: Unfortunately, so few people know so much about our history. there's, there's, there's There's a real mismatch with what I, as a historian, might know and what perhaps the general public knows. What I think is really interesting from my perspective is we have, a lot of people in the 19th century know all of this, they do, and in the 19th century newspapers are filled with all sorts of outrage, often written by settlers who are deeply concerned by various things that are going on.

Lynette Russell: In particular, the attacks on Aboriginal people, the dispossession, the poisonings, the massacres. So you've got that happening in the 19th century. By the early 20th century, people are still aware. People are travelling out to various missions, work in places like that, buying souvenir boomerangs and, you know, going out and seeing these communities.

Lynette Russell: And then something happens around the 1940s, 50s, uh, you know, probably post World War II, leading up to World War II and then post war, where everyone just simply forgets. We just, that's just no longer part of the way. And of course, in their stead, we get the kind of the heroic tales of the, you know, the squatters and the settlers and the, the people who, you know, came in and took the land from nothing and made it into something.

Lynette Russell: And in fact, Melbourne City Council decided to create a memorial to Maulboyheenner and Tunnerminnerwait. And this actually caused a huge amount of, of fuss. People felt that it was terrible that they would be commemorating people who were murderers. and Aboriginal people were very pleased that they were going to do this because they saw them as freedom fighters.

Lynette Russell: as people who were, in a sense, fighting for the communities, fighting for their rights. But there is so much that's happened in this city that we just simply don't know about, and it's still there. It's just beneath layers of concrete, that's all. It's still there. I keep this quote. I mean, it's very, very long.

Lynette Russell: I'm not going to read it all. But this is Edward Wilson, in 1850s. This is what he says. "Under present circumstances, this country has been shamelessly stolen from the blacks. Had they been like the New Zealanders or North American Indians, we'd have bought their land and supplied them with a means of living when we took it.

Lynette Russell: But being weak and poor and ignorant, we have treated them accordingly and ousted them without fee or reward. And we protest against this as an act of as mean and cowardly tyranny, as vile and flagrant dishonesty as the world has ever seen. We, the people of this colony, occupy, in this instance, the position of cheats and swindlers.

Lynette Russell: And we do not deserve that the land should prosper with us. It has been so dishonestly come by. Wow. That is the editorial in the Argus in 1850s. And it goes on and I can tell you it goes on and on. It is. 

Melissa Castan: It's a good bit of truth telling. 

Lynette Russell: It's a magnificent piece. It is absolutely fantastic. And so nobody should be under the impression that in the 19th century, people didn't know what they were doing, because they did.

Lynette Russell: They most certainly did. 

James Pattison: What is the legacy of these two men in your mind as a historian? How do you sort of pass the, on the one hand, the story that these men were murderers, out and out, and on the other hand that these men were freedom fighters? 

Lynette Russell: The truth is, James, we don't know, are they freedom fighters?

Lynette Russell: Are they murderers? Did they commit the murder? I suspect they most certainly did. I believe that they did, do so. I think they probably had justifications for it and I'm sure that in their own minds they certainly had justification. I don't see this as a random act, given that they knew these people.

Lynette Russell: But were they freedom fighters? Were they murderers? doesn't, in a sense, that's not the key question. The key question for me is, why did they not get, by the standards of the time, a fair trial? 

James Pattison: How important is it that we know this story? 

Lynette Russell: Well, I think if we're going to be a sophisticated society, I think we need to acknowledge our past.

Lynette Russell: And I think it's really important that we acknowledge not just the nice bits, not just the, you know, the settlers and the heroes, but also acknowledge that this country is built on the bodies and the blood of the First Nations people. 

Melissa Castan: In closing, Lynette, it was an unusual way that this story came, reignite or come before us again.

Melissa Castan: Can you tell us how you came across the story? 

Lynette Russell: Sure. So it was part of that memorialization that was being done by the Melbourne City Council. But my good friend and colleague, Kate Auty, had, as a legal scholar, had dicked into the actual legal case. And she pulled together all this really remarkable detail.

Lynette Russell: And then approached me as a historian and said, Why don't we put this together, with my kind of history lens and her legal lens. So I couldn't have done this without Kate. Kate was absolutely instrumental. And one of the things that, one of the things I love the most about Kate is she's so incredibly passionate about such things and in lots of ways, she's almost carrying on the traditions of, uh, Edward Wilson, herself.

Lynette Russell: So I have to acknowledge that Kate was the major reason that, that I came to this story. 

Melissa Castan: Well, thank you, Lynette. And thanks to Kate as well for re litigating and bringing this to light again. And we're really grateful to have had your insights into this, this horrible, but important story. 

Lynette Russell: Thank you, Melissa. Thank you, James. 

Melissa Castan: Professor Lynette Russell. Lynette is a Sir John Monash Distinguished Professor and an Australian Research Council Laureate Fellow at Monash University.

Melissa Castan: James, I love this episode. Where can I find more? 

James Pattison: Well, I never thought you'd ask. Uh, if you like this podcast, please consider subscribing or following your podcast app. There's a bunch more episodes. You can also leave us a review. We'd love to hear what you think of the show. 

Melissa Castan: Especially if it's a five star review, we especially like those.

James Pattison: I'm right there with you.